danielt - So you think the Coffee Party should shout people down who have opposing views and compare conservatives to Nazis? I don't get it, the Coffee Party is supposed to about reasoned discourse where the best ideas win?
(14 votes)
danielt - So you think the Coffee Party should shout people down who have opposing views and compare conservatives to Nazis? I don't get it, the Coffee Party is supposed to about reasoned discourse where the best ideas win?
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Socialist
Look. Let us be precise. Socialism is the government ownership of the means and distribution of production.
I believe in the American System as originally articulated in full by Henry Clay but practiced by the founding fathers.
The United States is an entity in itself. It has responsibilities and certain powers as defined broadly in the Constitution and the Subsequent Amendments-as interpreted by the Supreme Court and acted upon by the Executive and Legislative branches.
The United States is our Country. It is Not a socialist Entity nor a free market theory. The conduct of private enterprise
is separate. The govt. indeed regulates business but can no way in our system be business.The govt. protects our individual
liberties but only we are individuals. The Several States are other entities. So are Non-governmental organizations,charities and
other fraternal and voluntary associations. All protected by our Constitution . A unique system found NO WHERE ELSE IN THE WORLD.
The world knows this .That is why we are looked up to as the Leader of the world.And Rightfully so.
We are not a Socialist Country.We are not a Free Market Capitalist Country. We are not a Theocratic country. We are The United States of America Sure, we have govt. programs. We have a productive business community. We have civil society. Above all we have ourLiberty and our philosophical ideals:simply put:LIFE, LIBERTY, AND and the Pursuit of Happiness.
This is wonderful, grand, Meaningful. We can not and need not ask for anything more! the rest is just living our lives.
We,therefore, and thank God,are not and never will be societies such as Communist Soviet Union,Theocratic Iran or
Free market CAYMAN Islands. Let us not allow any ideology,religion,economic theory, or frankly so many
UNAMERCAN CRACKPOT IDEAS TEAR DOWN THIS COUNTRY!!
cant argure with that one.
the one world orders form is Oligarchy, and they want us to be their chattel, sheep,slaves you goot that picture. in the infinite wisdom of our republics creation it was put in their that the power went from the people to the government and they've been trying to stop that for 200 years. But that's why i say your government has you in a socialized state. affirmative action the whole welfare system the tearing down of the family. why did our government do that. to dumb us down , make us dependent on them. with the final stroke being to break us financially ,morally, and look at their success. our politicians are bought by those of the one world order. i have talked down on Obama because i know things and they are true but i cannot get to you the pertinent information. i am like a gypsy. i stay ahead of my followers and they aren't nice. since they killed William Cooper and i put that video we made in here and no one said any ting good or bad. wasted time? no because i set the stage for my presence. I don't know how long i can stay.My government will determine that. but i9 will to the best of my ability get facts and ideas and maybe ill make a little difference as William always told me its only a life on this world there's other lives elsewhere. so i troll the Internet spreading fairy tails and i wish William were here because he would like what i have done. its time to come out of hiding.
Pres. Wilson Gave Us the First Life-of-its-Own Corporation?
“for corporations were only to be used for projects that individuals couldnt accomplished . then terminated when the task was done.”
Not a lot of people seem to know that, quisno. I keep pointing out to everyone that it is part of every corporation’s by-laws that it exists to serve a social purpose.
We Americans have forgotten that, haven’t we?
So can you tell us more about Wilson’s role in that? Was Carnegie “the first of many”? Find us a source, please, if you can.
And here, you know, I thought I knew everything.....
Gozo!
(($;-)}
ok am going thru my treasure drove
did i give you this site. dont let balaban see it she'll have nightmares http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_nwo01.htm#Part I
NO NIGHTMARES QUISNO
Balaban saw it.... no nightmares at all. Just wanted to say that I am concerned about the anti government movement.... all of the spooky rhetoric about socialism.... things from the past that have inflamed our country and bunch of nut cases waiting for the spotlight on any major media station. We have all seen the horror of racism, skinheads, and natzi cult like physco- maniacs. The polarization of we the people.... and a divide amongst political parties stronger then ever. It is my hope that all of you who seem to antagonize the situation wake up and realize it is non productive. Quisno, I have faith that you will conduct yourself as a professional as I believe you are. This site... I thought was a vice to voice opinions and not be dominated by some who seem to want to run the show.... "my way or the highway". I see AKW seems to feel the same.It is enjoyable to have good discourse... share thoughts... and work towards a common goal. I really don't get that feeling here, as I did when I first came on.
Thats because i care.
im a mover i go into a job assess it.get the material and do it. i respect those that respect themselves. and you in your high tower akw and Jessie James Zen along with judge Azano . we got good people here and i mean to keep it that way. I'm like Lee either lead,follow or get the hell outta the way. feel the time is short and we got alot to do soon.straightened up and No more agents. NOmoregop is coming along and i even give spoon hi marks now. keep it that way as Wild bill Cody Once said:"You may not like me but respect me cause i can out draw ya."
that's perfect
that's perfect. You keep foaming, just like that. I'll see if I can find someone to approach the TPM from the rear, preferably someone with credentials . . .
And a little bit of inside dope - manufactured or other wise . . .
We'll put them right wing M-16s to good use yet . . .
ZenDog - Sgt@arms - What enemy? We need each other to succeed i
DEALING WITH PROVACATEURS & CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR:
Follow on from: http://www.believeinamerica.com/funeral-protest-fight-against-westboro-b...
There are lessons in this story that are generally applicable whenever anyone tries to intentionally disrupt a group and provoke violence. One of those little video cameras is your best weapon. AND Immediately call police. Take a video of the provocation. Have someone of substance, perhaps a grandmotherly school teacher type, ask the offenders, in a friendly tone of voice, "Hey neighbor, what's your name? I am ______ ." All while the video is running.
If the humanity+ approach does not quench hostilities immediately, state the date time and place and the camera person’s name on video, while withdrawing in formation. If the police do not personally witness the 'disorderly conduct' immediately show them the video while the offenders are in view of the police. then ask that the offenders be arrested for your states equivalent of:
“Code of Virginia §18.2-415. Disorderly conduct in public places.
A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with the intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
A. In any street, highway, public building, or while in or on a public conveyance, or public place engages in conduct having a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, such conduct is directed; or
B. Willfully or being intoxicated, whether willfully or not, and whether such intoxication results from self-administered alcohol or other drug of whatever nature, disrupts any funeral, memorial service, or meeting of the governing body of any political subdivision of this Commonwealth or a division or agency thereof, or of any school, literary society or place of religious worship, if the disruption (i) prevents or interferes with the orderly conduct of the funeral, memorial service, or meeting or (ii) has a direct tendency to cause acts of violence by the person or persons at whom, individually, the disruption is directed; or “ . . .
Conviction should be straight forward and conducted at state expense. Any civil remedy thereafter is on much stronger ground as the defendant’s culpability is already established by the court's record.
Also a bit of humanity+ can sometimes heals even the most sorry perps - No problem and a possible friend is better that a court conviction and judgment of liability most of the time.
Note that, at least in Virginia, if your organization is defined as having ANY educational purpose its articles of incorporation, bylaws or resolutions should specifically identify the organization as a “literary society”.
Also have a non-violence training for all that will accompany your group. All should explicitly sign on to a rules-of-conduct covenant with each other. The video camera routine is useful if any provocateur enters your midst by this route. Internal misconduct remedy should be declared in the covenant. It will avoid problems.
Also, for your own protection and the security of your objectives, require that all other groups with which you associate and coalition be diligent in adopting and implementing a like covenant. Thoroughness in this regard will encourage participation and strength in both numbers and unity.
With respect to DC events DC law should be known. At least see DC ST § 22-1307, DC ST § 22-1301, & DC ST § 5-115.05; Be aware that particular policemen may have a partisan agenda, so do not rely too much on any fallible human’s honor. In addition to any required permits (§ 5-331.03) It would not hurt to establish rapport, in advance, with the DC police person who is your contact referred to you by higher authority. Reveal your diligence as good citizens, ask for advice, do it in writing.
Russell Patton Davis designer of “The US CONSTITUTION APPLIED: Tools for getting it done TODAY” with draft at http://TeaPartyConstitutionalists.ning.com/
Non-Violence, Provocateurs, “Disorderly Conduct”
Zen you amase me.
Now what did you say?
Never mind
I was responding to kevlynch several posts back, it's long since buried in a flurry of comments. Never mind.
no problem then
holt has thrown up some ideas. shall we start? i installed the wings today maybe now we can get this thing off the gtround.
Where Is This Man Called “Holt”?
I wish it were easier to follow the threads around here. Just when you find another unreasonable fool like yourself, it all gets lost in all the rest.
Is there a programmer in the house?
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What ya trying to say
What ya trying to say spoonless eddie. Hey guys for a tag line.... A DIVERSIFIED BLEND.... BREWED TO PERFECTION A LOGO A BAG OF COFFEE WITH BEANS FALLING OUT INTO A CUP.... THE BEANS ARE IN THE SHAPE OF DONKEYS ELEPHANTS AND DIFFERENT COLORS OR SOMETHING OTHER.... NOW I WANT YOUR IMPUT. THANKS!
why do you yell?
i thought you were taught better?
INPUT
(spits on ground) THIS SHIT IS DECAF!
no comprendo Eddie lets be
no comprendo Eddie lets be productive.... where's my email?
Bourne Identity Ideas
Conklin: Well why don't you go upstairs and book a conference room. Maybe you can talk him to death.
COUNTERING THE TP - HOW TO
As squeaky as the TP wheel is, the only thing they have to say is "Down With Everything Except Us!" That won't fix a thing. The Anti-TP would be just as narrow and limited as the TP itself. Think beyond this.
In the past two years the net has had an increasing influence on politicians. I am convinced I saw a direct connection between certain net polls and petitions, and the behavior of certain politicians. This is where we are headed, and this is what we need to get our arms around.
There are a couple of things we will need.
1.) A common direction. The TP has it, such as it is. I say, "Let's Fix What's Wrong." I think we can do it. Above, I hinted at how. If we build it, they will come.
2.) Leadership. Somebody needs to be out in the front, twirling a baton. Calling the plays. The TP has it. Without it we are just a Montessori school.
3.) Marketing/Communications muscle, enough to get serious media coverage on an ongoing basis. The TP has it.
I can contribute to the 'what' and 'how' of Item 1, and I think I can explain why it is an effective approach. Some web developer skills beyond my own are needed, though. I suspect Item 2 will take care of itself. A charismatic individual would be ideal. The importance of Item 3 cannot be overstated. Without it, the first two items are useless.
Comments please.
Tea Party Comment
Personally, I’m unhappy about all this Tea Party bashing. The country is filled with frustrated people, and quite a few of them have found themselves in with that group, maybe just to take a look-see. I don’t have any reason to believe that the whole of the group is made up of unthinking Yahoos. We all know about the polarizing effects of the media, who have little choice but to fight with sensationalism, or they lose our attention.
Is the goal to be “right”? To be “better than them”? Well, that seems to be part of their publicized, public goal. I believe that this forum has expressly disavowed that approach.
It makes me wonder whether those among us who keep inciting the anti-Tea emotions might have ulterior motives of their own——not in keeping with the overriding, guiding impulse of the Coffee side of life.
Back in the 60’s, we had the so-called “outside agitators” who would come in and get us out marching in the streets. But then, we wanted to be led in that way. We wanted to bring the bad things to a stop, with violence, if necessary.
Nowadays, that’s called “terrorism.” (Everybody remember that former Weatherman who got Candidate Obama in trouble, guilt by association?) And it even seems possible that the Tea Party is being egged on by those same kind of “outside agitators.”
If so, that will likely send a good portion of the staid population over to our, uh, more-reasonable side. Victory, at least in part, would, uh, be ours?
That, uh, would be a good thing? Right?
Gozo!
(($;-)}
gozo.healthcare@yahoo.com
gozo theres a song for you "only you"
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/esp_sociopol_nwo01.htm im going back as you asked but id like to start showing you little bits of my travels in history.this has to do with the one world order. and it will prepare you for the type of person that Carnegie bacame when intducted into the illuminati.
I see
You've been paying attention. The only question is, do you really have the stomach for it?
Zen you may like it also but balaban
balaban stay away from the illuminati i dont wanting you to having night mares on my account.
your almost ready for the truth
and its going to take all of you tp and cp to get over this hump.
WE MUST AND HAVE TOO!
We have to counter demonstrate so the politicians and media can see that "most of America" is not the Tea Party. I am sick of this talking point that gets pushed as fact. You get a few people screaming and maybe a few thousand protesting and it's call "most of America". WE MUST GET OUT THERE and show the country what the majority of Americans really want.
i believe we should organize
i believe we should organize and demonstrate. not as a counter measure to the tea party, but as a positive measure illustrating our thoughts and views. firstly, we have to identify four or five points we truly believe in, organize to clarify these ideas, then plan a demonstration. we never want to be viewed as an anti-teaparty movement...rather proponents for neccessary change.
I agree and have proposed
I agree and have proposed right here how to do it to make ourselves known and our message clear without resorting to Tea Bag tacticts. It went unnoticed. Just read further down and look you will see that most of the posts have nothing or little to do with the topic on this page but have been taken over by the same psuedo intellectuals who seem to dominate many of the other topics and offer only facts no solutions. Oh and there are the few that are against demonstrations, whatever their reasons. I dont believe any change will come until we make ourselves known, and by doing that in person and in a civil way.
I’m Too Old for “Now the Revolution!”
I’ll count myself in the pseudo category, no question, but I’ll defend my position, too:
The forums are hard to navigate——and the topics stray, as you pointed out. But while your mission here seems to be to organize and to move——as in a movement——mine is just to engage and dialogue. My objective is to see if I can’t find a way to get through to other people, in the [pseudo] Socratic method of leading people to find the better answers within themselves.
I have been doing this since the old dial-up, BBS days——though I had forgotten it until another poster reminded me via email. We Americans don’t listen——to others or to ourselves——because we just don’t feel listened to or heard ourselves. No wonder we are so frustrated.
If you are trying to convince a person, who has not heard the folly in his own thoughts, to listen to your foolish thoughts——as they get louder and louder and louder——then you’re just going to end up yelling at each other.
Call it the “Tea Party Movement.” Call it “Coffee Party U.S.A.”
And if everybody goes out and has face-to-face protests, what makes you think that it will somehow be more-reasonable face-to-face than it is here?
Maybe you’re right. Maybe we need to stick to the topics and to come up with some constructive rallying approach. But my money is on the persistence of time. Call it a new twist on non-violence. I plan to keep talking and typing and pecking away, being as clever and as creative (to keep myself interested) and as attentive and as inquisitive (to keep the Yahoos interested), and see if the sheer weight and noise of the Other Guys’ side drives more and more of the more-reasonable folks over to mine.
And come April 15th, well, it can’t be very hard for any red-blooded, IRS-loving American to know where I will be and what doing.
(($;-)}
Gozo!
gozo.healthcare@yahoo.com
Gozo we are the revolution we old pucks that have lived our
lives. we have experienced war the socializing of our country presidents die. we are of what use? if we are patriots we learn about our heritage. we take each day at a time and one step at a time we fit into our clothes the same way every one else does. we've just had more practice. so US old dogs must turn the reigns over to the young but in doing so impart our learning as best we can on those that are just starting to learn. that's what old people who are true to their families and compatriots do. its never easy but we have to do it and do it right. for from us they learn compassion and truthfulness. and respect . Gozo thats all we have to give; is our selves if they want and if they don't then we missed their calling. and we will judge ourselves in the final court.
who does that sound like?
i mentioned going after the corporations, and the truth that this government for the last 80 years has withheld. i have shown how by the republic we can take it back. i said that iam a guardian ,you, yes you laughed and ridiculed me. balaban and i set up an agenda but it wasnt yours so you abstained. so what is it you truly do want? i will even promote it if i feel its adequate. and i promise that.
I will be there on April 15th -- who's with me?
We need a peaceful counter weight to the tea-baggers.
The network news needs to simply see that when America voted for change we were commited to it. The heavy lifting has alreay been done on the Health Care overhall --we simply need to stand and be counted as behind it.
Yes?
Second request
Where you going on the 15th northcoast ... Quisno?
im going to washington
on the 15th so they can taser me, and beat, me even gas me, like they did in pittsburg on the g-20 summit but i have some new moves i think this may be fun.
ME TO
WELL WHOS GOING AND HOW MANY T_ SHIRTS????????
North you have me.
ill be out their the 15th. and ill also say with my banner 'no taxation with out representation'. and we dont wish your socialism any more . we are americans first ,foremost and we want justice and freedom for all. and we will manifest that by electing any one who will help us to that end.
WHERE?????
WHERE?????
YES!
granted, we should make
granted, we should make ourselves known. but first we have to agree on a kitchen table of ideas and or reforms. we have to put gas in the tank, or better yet, coffee in the pot.
The issues are crystal clear,
The issues are crystal clear, and its not rocket science to identify them. Truth in government, global warming, sane long term foreign policy.(war) which goes hand in hand with sane foreign policy to name just a few. Its time to take a stand, its time to choose to be part of the solution and not part of the problem. Its time to quit paying lip service to idealist notions and step up and be counted, or go to star bucks drink your expensive coffee and pretend what you say matters.
to hell with starbucks
SDtarbuck is part of the elite. we dont need em. truth i like that one. no more wars for the oil barrons let them fight their own wars. and abolish corporate structures in this country. no more giving 30 trillion dollars of my money to goldman sachs buddies, no more keeping us citizens with out trial. bring back our Republic . is that a ok holt>|? balaban>?
Quisno!!!!!!!!!!
I happened to like Starbucks....Did you know they have partnered with MSNBC to join a hand in promoting a better education for our children giving money and resources to what I believe should be something we stand for as well. To say they are eliteist is rather strong, coming from you! who calls every one out when they voice an opinion that you seem to disagree on. Oh and by the way I do not agree that we are in a socialist climate, I happened to agree with Obama on most issues.... not all. But, I would still have a coffee or tea with you Quisno!
lol weve learned to get along.
and so the rest of you. balaban and i argree to disagree and that my freinds is what this country has always been about. and you have to commend me ive left obama alone and i commend you. that you have a task in front of you. let us roll up our sleaves and get it done. Holt is on board, Zen, also gozo and HNY. we are truly blessed this day.
WHERE ARE WE GOING?????? QUISNO
Hey you are on of the few who return posts... I expect you to let me know where we are going on the 15th. HOW ABOUT A TAG LINE ON A T_SHIRT FOR THE DAY THAT READS A DIVERSIFIED BLEND.....BREWED TO PERFECTION
DIVERSIFIED BLEND.....BREWED TO PERFECTION
Cute! A good one!
Holt you seem to have brains
lets put this up for discussions: You all don't get it. Corporations control this country. Read what the original Corporations in this Nation were for. they were controlled by the States to take on projects that were too large for individuals. the installation of a Charter for a Corporation had a one year maximum life. Then if it was needed for a longer period of time the person/s petitioned for an extension. ok fast forward to _Carnegie. He petitioned to allow the government( not the state) to allow him to maintain his charter ,therefore removing the the States ability to control his action. none of the states rebelled against this legislation. So what you have to day is the cumulative effect of a people asleep .Today that neglect has come to haunt us . we are trained from birth not to have the knowledge of our purpose as a true Republic.And in order to stop this miscarriage of justice we must revisit our past to help us in our future. for with out the Corporations ,which the founders knew would be a problem left unchecked, our lives will be more simple and the power elite would have a much harder time to gain any kind of control like we have today.
A good fast and fairly easy
A good fast and fairly easy to understand paper was written by a California Attorney .
"The Hijacking of the Fourteenth Amendment" By Doug Hammerstrom
Google this and you will get all kinds of hits, and understand just how disgusting what the corporations and a very conservative supreme court did.
holt plees
i need to read that! thank you from the bottom of this iron heart.
Thanks, Too!
quisno/Glen Holt: You both answered my question....before I asked it.
Too bad it is so hard to navigate around these forums/posts. The dialogue is crazy, and it can be days before finding where the last one I left was....
humm
that kinda sounds like you're talkin' bout me . . . but I have offered solutions . . . and just because any reasonable, thinking person would find them, um, [reprehensible?][horrifying?][inhumane?] or simply [too Machiavellian to contemplate??] doesn't mean they aren't viable - or even necessary - solutions to the problems we face.
I mean, lets face facts. I have a slightly different skill set than you guys - but what do you expect after having spent too large a portion of the last thirteen goddammed years in the ECHOCHAMBER - I never said THAT was a good idea . . .
and while everyone is listening no one will admit it and that's a problem. When no one will stand on that one issue it seems as if no one will stand for anything yet as we examine the teabaggers we see that simply is not true.
They are FULL of disaffected wingnuts j.u.s.t. l.i.k.e. m.e. You just don't seem to appreciate how useful that is . . .
We've only got about six years to straighten The Mess out. IF we haven't done a few key things in that time . . . then I think the least we can say is that the future prospects of any kind of representative government - barring a complete collapse of the social structures worldwide - is nil.
I don't have to pull my ear as I say that, do I? I mean after all . . . I'm trying really really hard to pull yours . . .
six years . . .
Six years . . . that isn't much time. Not given the depth and breadth of our ills. Consider the representations provided over the air waves - the counterfeit of our public discourse.
It has become our currency of trade.
Conspiracy theories abound . . . and how could they not? Conspiracy itself infests every corner of our nation . . . and if you think that isn't true then please, P.L.E.A.S.E.! by all means, try telling that to the 18,000 dead Mexicans slain since 2006 in the interest of the American Consumer . . .
Conspiracy theories have, it should very carefully be noted, been an underlying component of the highway toward fascism. We still have in place significant policies implemented under Bush that are unmistakable signposts along the way.
All of this while the global economy threatens to push the entire mass of humanity into the abyss . . .
SIX YEARS . . .
It isn't much time.